Last week's FFF offering brought some interesting comments forward. I responded to one;
It is one of life's eternal conundrums. Words and their definitions - then add in altered usage, never mind the addition of entirely new 'words'.
Have any of you seen the film I mention? I understand it may not have even hit most movie theatres (I found it online by one of those flukes of searching for something entirely different... sigh...) Look, in filmic terms, it is not a hot ticket; however, it tells the true story of a word-merchant (teacher) from a wee Scottish border town who somehow lands himself in the position of creating the very first Oxford Dictionary. Professor Murray (as he became) had the assistance of an inmate of Broadmoor, an institution for the insane, who was an American doctor. An unlikely relationship was begun, based purely on the love of the English language. If you find the DVD it is worth a look.
My point, though, was the task they undertook. Although the film rather fails on the part of the language itself, it does point to the difficulties of taming what is actually a wild beast! "English", let us be clear, is a cobbled-together tongue, arisen from many tribes. It is the original 'common language', preceding Esperanto by several centuries. Even its grammar is flexible in a manner most other languages cannot tolerate.
This leaves it open to constant flux. However, there are rules within it and some of those simply ought not to be broken... in my opinion. A pure academic argument on some of these points may find a way to justify them. ... but ...
One of my pet hates at the moment is the use of 'also' and 'too' in the same sentence, or 'as well' - and, on occasion, I have heard all three being used. I kid you not. It is the morning weather 'girl' (she's 55) that dad watches who really gets my goat. "In Scotland, also too, there will be showers and high winds as well." ....aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...
There is just no excuse for that.
Then there is the misuse of the personal pronoun. "I" do not have to be all the time present!!! If the sentence in the singular could only be "me", it ought to be "me" in the plural.
Sorry, that sound you hear is my teeth grinding.
Then there is this software I have been using for 18 months now. Grammarly. Given what I pay for it, it lets me down quite a lot. What it DOES do is make me re-read my own work really closely and catches the vast majority of my errors mostly typos and transpositions and such. However, it gets a great deal just plain wrong. There have been mornings where the keyboard has been in danger of going through the screen, so frustrating are some of the 'suggestions' made for correction. I am thinking of writing to the creators. Their algorithm for 'improving' the software is failing. Or it is 'improving' according to overcorrection by other users IN ERROR. It is learning bad habits, in other words.
Deep breaths, YAM. Apparently, it is not the end of the world. Most folk these days don't even know what you are talking about. Language reflects the times and society, remember. The laxer the society, the laxer the language. So what if discipline and good etiquette are getting scrubbed?
It is one of life's eternal conundrums. Words and their definitions - then add in altered usage, never mind the addition of entirely new 'words'.
Have any of you seen the film I mention? I understand it may not have even hit most movie theatres (I found it online by one of those flukes of searching for something entirely different... sigh...) Look, in filmic terms, it is not a hot ticket; however, it tells the true story of a word-merchant (teacher) from a wee Scottish border town who somehow lands himself in the position of creating the very first Oxford Dictionary. Professor Murray (as he became) had the assistance of an inmate of Broadmoor, an institution for the insane, who was an American doctor. An unlikely relationship was begun, based purely on the love of the English language. If you find the DVD it is worth a look.
My point, though, was the task they undertook. Although the film rather fails on the part of the language itself, it does point to the difficulties of taming what is actually a wild beast! "English", let us be clear, is a cobbled-together tongue, arisen from many tribes. It is the original 'common language', preceding Esperanto by several centuries. Even its grammar is flexible in a manner most other languages cannot tolerate.
This leaves it open to constant flux. However, there are rules within it and some of those simply ought not to be broken... in my opinion. A pure academic argument on some of these points may find a way to justify them. ... but ...
One of my pet hates at the moment is the use of 'also' and 'too' in the same sentence, or 'as well' - and, on occasion, I have heard all three being used. I kid you not. It is the morning weather 'girl' (she's 55) that dad watches who really gets my goat. "In Scotland, also too, there will be showers and high winds as well." ....aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...
There is just no excuse for that.
Then there is the misuse of the personal pronoun. "I" do not have to be all the time present!!! If the sentence in the singular could only be "me", it ought to be "me" in the plural.
Sorry, that sound you hear is my teeth grinding.
Then there is this software I have been using for 18 months now. Grammarly. Given what I pay for it, it lets me down quite a lot. What it DOES do is make me re-read my own work really closely and catches the vast majority of my errors mostly typos and transpositions and such. However, it gets a great deal just plain wrong. There have been mornings where the keyboard has been in danger of going through the screen, so frustrating are some of the 'suggestions' made for correction. I am thinking of writing to the creators. Their algorithm for 'improving' the software is failing. Or it is 'improving' according to overcorrection by other users IN ERROR. It is learning bad habits, in other words.
Deep breaths, YAM. Apparently, it is not the end of the world. Most folk these days don't even know what you are talking about. Language reflects the times and society, remember. The laxer the society, the laxer the language. So what if discipline and good etiquette are getting scrubbed?
Me thinks it is funny too right this phrase in response two you're post. 😂😂😂 seriouslyI agree we have become too lax in our use of our language. My current pet peeves are the minis use of fruits, spelling of IPad and making LEGO plural (Legos). These are frequent issues in my work world. With some of our media models it is a surprise our language is as good as it is!
ReplyDeleteOh my...Can't stop laughing at the first sentence K10's response! I do know times are constantly changing, and the ease of having Grammerly, spell check and other computer programs have made us(and most likely future generations) lazy when it comes to correct language use.
ReplyDeleteWonderful post(and points!)!
Apostrophes! Some people seem to think its not that bad not to use them, but it changes the whole sentence (and yes, I missed one on purpose also too as well here!). According to some I am a bit of a grammar snob, but it's there for a reason: USE IT!
ReplyDeleteMy worst one was a book that was set in 'Ye Olde England' and used words like color and neighbor and such! I cringed throughout! If it's set in England: use the u!
I know my grammar and such isn't always the best. But what I like about reading blogs over sea, how words are used.
ReplyDeleteCoffee is on
When I saw you mention the movie "The Professor and the Madman" I checked and found that it is available to rent on Amazon Video and have added it to my watch list. One of my pet peeves is when a spell check red squiggly line forms under a word that isn't misspelled. I can't think of an example right now but it has happened. If that happens I usually check with Google to make sure I'm not going crazy. Of course don't get me started on what Hailey and Zaphod's Lady implied on the improper use of to, too, two or their and there. Those are things that spell check won't catch but if anyone would just do a little proof reading before hitting publish they might catch most of them.
ReplyDeleteHari OM
DeleteOh yes, those are all on my list - too!!! It is not that one is immune to transpositions and typos and we all now that proof-reading 87 times in draft will always find us reading the live script and discovering at least one that escaped! It is also not that one disses those who may not have benefitted from complete learning. Then there are others who use language in creative ways for emphasis - as "Lady" did in her comment above. All of these are acceptable. I am talking about people who simply ought to know better. Newsreaders, presenters of all types, pundits in various fields. Politicians... I'll stop here. Another rant is rising!!! Yxx
On the one hand, I too (but not also) hate sloppy grammar, but on the other hand, I am wary about being too pedantic. I work with many people whose first language is not English (and a few whose grasp of their native English is shaky) and what seems to me important is clear communication rather than grammatical purism.
ReplyDeleteCheers! Gail.
Hari OM
DeleteAs you will note from my response to Millie and Walter, I can forgive those who have not grown up with better knowledge; it also has to be noted that I am talking mostly about written language, the spoken often taking shortcuts; though hearing television presenters (on the Bastion of "British" Culture) getting it so wrong at times really does have my teeth grinding and my innards curling. It is admitted that with the best will and attention, one is not immune to errors oneself. It is to be noted, however, that this is about some fundamental grammatical matters and not about the idiosyncratic flow of any person's language. We all have various 'turns of phrase' and emphasis, which add colour and joy to any communication.
What set me off on this rant was a spate of misuse in recent presentations (that weather 'girl' truly had me wriggling in my seat!) and that Grammarly has recently had an 'update' that has increased the number of erroneous 'corrections'. Though, to their credit, they now have added to the range of "dismiss" buttons a button for "incorrect suggestion". I suppose this is to improve their algorithms. It depends, though, on folk knowing what is an incorrect suggestion and what is just an overweening piece of software that can't actually read context...
...and again I hiss!!! Hey ho... Yxx
that is true.. and the language of our current time is.... very special... the only one who still sticks with traditional words is the mama she grew up with the youknowwhatword and she sticks with it...
ReplyDeleteIt's an interesting problem. I've just begun text messaging with our new phone. It's a pain-in-the-butt! No wonder people have created emojis! Ye olde English certainly has evolved. I still get that feeling when I see grammar mistakes. \My favourite is a nearby farm, "EGG'S for Sale!" Then there are all the road signs: Kellys Road.
ReplyDeleteWatch grinding of teeth. Frequently my mangling of the language is so apparent. Effect and affect are still a confusion for me. May you not grind your teeth into the roots. namaste, janice xx
ReplyDelete